Insanely Great
Interview with Steven Levy
It is rare in this world to find people who not only understand people well, and understand machines well too, but also are able to explain the later to the former in understandable and entertaining terms. (If you don't believe me, go to the bookstore and try reading ten randomly selected computer books. Probably nine of them are more or less unreadable.)
But fortunately they do exist. One such person we interviewed last month, David Pogue. Another stellar example is Steven Levy.
I'd like firstly to quote what I wrote about one of Mr. Levy's books on my bookshop web site:
Insanely Great
The Life and Times of Macintosh, the Computer that changed Everything
By Steven Levy
This book is not only very informative about the history of the Mac computer, but also about the history of the user-friendly personal computer in general. On top of that it is a great pleasure to read, since Levy is so enthusiastic and honestly interested and caring about what he investigates, and since he writes so wonderfully well. He has none of the ill-concealed snideness that typifies many journalists, instead he has an ability to see what is important for the world.
To that I may add that it is probably the only computer book I have ever read twice.
MacCreator: You have written some books that are very far from typical. About the Macintosh, about Hackers (not the criminal type), and about artificial life. What drives you as a journalist?
Steven Levy: The ideal for me is to write about something really significant that previously hasn't been written about in-depth. Hackers is a good example. Several times sources would say to me after long interviews, "Gee, I really haven't gone back and told this stuff before." But I knew I was hearing history.
MacCreator: A lot of people in the humanities, especially around universities, have only contempt for machines. They don't seem to think that machines can do very much for humankind. What do you think about this?
Steven Levy: Do these people walk to work? Do they use tin cans instead of telephones? Computers are only the latest in a series of technological advances beginning with sharpened stones. Every single one of those advances probably came with a warning that it would dilute the quality of life. I guess in some of those cases it has. But just ask someone to do without even the most reviled technological tools -- television, for example -- and see if they want to go back.
MacCreator: (Well, actually TV is one thing I do without. But video/DVD I would rather not.)
Personally, I didn't even get a computer until the mid-nineties. So a graphical user interface etc. seems pretty natural to me. But you hadn't seen one before when you first saw the Mac in 1983. How did it affect you?
Steven Levy: As I wrote in Insanely Great, it was a revelation. Think of the moment in Wizard of Oz when Dorothy got to Oz and everything turned into color. Though the Mac was black and white, the paper-like quality and the intuitive interface meant that you didn't have to lock your mind into a rigid box in order to do stuff on a computer. You could be yourself.
MacCreator: You were pretty much into the back-stage of Apple and the computer scene even before the Mac came around. Let's say Steve Jobs had been killed by lightning in 1980. How would the development of the personal computer have been different?
Steven Levy: Great question. I guess that eventually someone would have done the GUI, probably not with as much flair.
MacCreator: Steve Jobs is a big hero these days. He has even recently been awarded the largest ever benefit-package ever to be given to a CEO, including a Lear jet. Yet he was perfectly willing to work for one dollar a year for two years (he got that pay just to make sure his family got benefits). What do you think drives such a person?
Steven Levy: I think that Steve is a pretty complex guy, so you can't break it down into either ego matters or simply a drive to change the world. He does have a strong emotional attachment to Apple, and also probably loves the idea that it needed him to turn the ship around. As for the money, since his Pixar stake is so high, he didn't need it from Apple at first, and then it just seemed a reasonable payoff to a CEO who brought the stock up so much.
MacCreator: Is using a computer different for a creative person? How does the Mac enter into this?
Steven Levy: I think that traditionally the Mac has lowered the bar for creativity, so you don't have to distinguish between "creative people" and. . . well, others. Less so now that Windows has made strides.
MacCreator: Some people say things like: "Yeah, so a computer can make a person write a book easier and faster. But do we have better books because of it?" How does this statement seem to you?
Steven Levy: I actually would agree with the sentiment. In fact, I think that books are probably worse, though people can write more of them in less time. Being forces to retype a whole manuscript is actually a good discipline.
MacCreator: How do you think computer technology will affect the future of creativity? (Writing, visual arts, music...)
Steven Levy: At this point, I think that the question is outdated. Computer technology is so built into our lives that it's part of the surround of every artist.
MacCreator: (Except when I read magazines for fine arts painters, they still treat computer generated art as something very esoteric that they take up in one article every year or so.)
I have to ask: What do you think of Mac OS X? Here I am thinking both of the user interface and the underlying system.
Steven Levy: I look forward to fewer crashes. As for Aqua, I like what I've seen so far. But seeing demos isn't living with it day by day.
MacCreator: Hackers was your first book, back in 1983. What made you examine such a strange, and to a lot of people irrelevant, sub-culture?
Steven Levy: I loved the people and was fascinated (and enriched) by the way they thought.
MacCreator: Apparently, a hardware- or software-genius see real beauty in brilliantly created computer technology. Is this similar to the beauty Apple has put in the design of their computers the last couple of years?
Steven Levy: Similar in that beauty isn't just in the eye of the beholder. Apple has gotten a lot of mileage in recent years on great external design, but there's also been nice if not earthshattering stuff like Sherlock, Quicktime, etc. I think that the most beautiful thing lately hasn't been in hardware or software per se but collaboration -- the idea behind Napster, which uses the distributed power of the Internet as its engine.
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